Thursday, September 02, 2004

The problem with words

This is probably going to be long. You've been warned. I'll also say that I don't think any of this will be groundbreaking by any means.
I started writing this about a month ago. I got like 3 sentences in, hit "Save as Draft" and brooded over it like a mother hen. But no matter how I scratched at the thing and clucked, I couldn't organize my thoughts properly.

Then last night something happened. I think I realized some things. They are, in no particular order:

Language is a primitive and ramshackle way for certain intelligent, intensely solipsistic mammals to convey ideas to one another. Languages are highly--though arbitrarily--structured series of symbols meant to point at things in the world. I think, as minds evolved, it also become a way to attempt to find common ground for the turmoil within ourselves. Where in more intelligent animal species it is a tool for coordinating movement in the world, among humans it has become a way to approximate and communicate the function of cognition and the structure of memory. It does that last thing poorly, but does it about as well as I think anything possibly could.

The problem that arises is one of interface. Any CS major knows it's hard to get two computers to talk to each other--the crazy handshake protocols and whatnot. For all that difficulty though, computers have essentially the same architecture. When they also have the same operating system, the job is simplified further. They might have different stuff on them, but they're essentially built the same way. There are standards in place to ensure these sorts of things.

There are no such standards for the human mind, which is not just fantastically complex, but is left, more or less, to create itself as it goes. Hence each mind is unique, and without some commonality, is completely foreign to other minds.

Into the cracks of these fractured and never-duplicated architectures, language takes hold and fights to maintain an interface. It does a decent job. I certainly couldn't do any better.

It's best at managing exterior commands and descriptions. Language can adequately describe and interpret the world and disseminate useful predictions and conclusions about it. These are tautological kinds of things. You point and say to your friend, "That is a cat." He slaps you because A) you are wrong and that's not a cat or B) you didn't need to tell him that because he already knows it.

This is useful for navigating one's way through life. Language is like the evolutionary buddy system. Walk this way. Kill that. Avoid the sharp things in that thing's mouth. It's a system of distributed survival skills for a class of particularly slow, fleshy omnivores.

But even here the cracks in language start to show. A cat is not merely a cat. Calling a cat a cat is a really crappy description. It says practically nothing. There are dozens if not hundreds of modifiers in the English language to abet this shortcoming. These modifiers, including but not limited to adjectives, are almost always a judgement call. Big, small, tall, short are the most simplistic of a group of words that are all highly relativistic terms that require interpretation on the part of the speaker and listener alike. This creates problems.

Even at it's most objective and straightforward, language causes profound complications in understanding. Which cat? That cat. Which one? Third from the right. My right or your right? And on and on.

What happens then, when the context shifts from describing exterior phenomena to the world of thoughts and emotions? Chaos. I think.

How do you define an emotion? Describe it. Crystalize what you're feeling right now with just the words you have around you. If somehow you possessed language but were without other agents to share yourself with, how would you describe an emotion? This situation is, by definition, impossible, given the dialogic nature of language evolution--but consider it.

Not only is such an attempt fruitless, it's also maddeningly hard. I'd say it's impossible. Language is a dialogue. How do you have a dialogic interaction with people who have no access to what you're talking about?

What is sadness? Not the emotion you feel. How do you recognize sadness in others? Tears? Pessimistic attitudes? Lashing out? Have you ever been wrong in your diagnosis?

If we understand that there is no one to one correllation of words to phenomenal objects outside of us, how can we hope to find any kind of correllation at all between the workings of two completely unique and experientially distant minds? How can you develop a series of dialogic symbols for unique feelings--feelings no one else has?

We can't. If we could, the human world would be a much better place. As humans, understanding other people's emotions involves several cues, only the least important of which resides with the other person him/herself.
  • You notice something is wrong with X based on a survey of his/her complexion and demeanor. He/she appears to be Y
  • You ask X if something is wrong (error checking).
  • X says he/she is Y (we'll say he/she is "sad")
  • You remember sad. You remember how other people have looked when they were sad. You remember why they say they were sad. You remember the context, nothing about their actual emotions.
  • You cross-reference this against the times you have fit into that context.
  • You attempt to remember how you felt then.
  • You assume they feel the same way now as you did then.
  • You ask them, "Why, what happened?"
That one in italics is the tricky one--it's a big assumption. And, after making that assumption, there's no way to figure out if it was the correct assumption to make. So regardless of veracity, you continue to make that assumption.

His sadness must be like my sadness. Is it? Often, I think, it's not at all like your sadness.

Why do some people have unexpected and strange reactions to anti-depressants and other psychotropic drugs? Is it because certain chemicals have different functions in different people? Perhaps because a drug designed to boost A also has an unexpected and undocumented affect on B? These are the prevailing thoughts I think, and they're probably correct very often.

Doesn't it also seem likely though, that the misstep might be happening in the process of diagnosis, when a doctor has to decide on whether medication is a good idea? The doctor looks at what the patent has told him: I'm depressed, I'm paranoid, I can't sleep. Once again comes the big assumption of correllating depressed, paranoid insomniac with previous--successfully treated--depressed, paranoid insomniacs.

Of course that's what all the training is for, to make those distinctions and judgements. But no amount of training can really get you access to the raw emotions that drive people.

At the level of human thought though, there can really be very little separation between emotions and the words you use to describe them. I express emotions to myself all the time in terms of words. It's a highly abstract association kind of thing. It's the kind of thing I've learned not to share with others, because the words I use to describe something new and peculiar to me (something lacking a culture-wide symbol like sadness) are not the words other people would use. I know these people wouldn't have used those words because they look like the culturally understood confused and worried.

How many times have you heard someone--or thought to yourself--I'd love to get this off my chest, but I don't want to worry X? Why do we say that? I think there are two possibilities, and each is rooted in what we call fear.
  1. We worry that our feelings have never been experienced by the other person, and that we'll seem broken somehow, like non-functional humans.
  2. We have, at a fundamental level, the knowledge that language just isn't good for certain things. We fear our own inability to articulate.
The first instance seems vaguely Freudian, but I'm not sure. I haven't exposed myself to much Freud because psychoanalysis hasn't been hip since . . . well, whenever Woody Allen stopped making good movies. I'm almost positive, however that almost all instances of case 1 can be subsumed into case 2.

What then of empathy? I think this is a special case. It can't be learned the way someone can be trained in psychiatry. For those that are considered to have it, it just is. They have a natural gift for understanding, without words, a person's feelings. It seems like empathy would have to be pre-cognitive, existing somewhere outside the region of the brain infected with language because everything touched by language becomes almost indivisible from it. Emotions exist on some kind of hinterland.

It's amazing and beautiful and I'm positive that I don't have it. I have, however, had profound connections with certain people that seem to transcend the barriers of language. My relationships with these people feel empathetic. I feel like I know what they're experiencing, sometimes when they don't. I've used this for good and evil. But it's not like a latent connection. It's an understanding born of proximity, study, sanguinity, infuriation, and above all, I think, luck. I connect with these people, I think, because the words I'd use to describe my emotions are somehow very close to the words they'd use. Like somehow, in the course of these lives, we've selected similar word sets to describe similar emotions.

I don't think this happens very often, but when it does, your connection with the other person approaches empathy because, inexplicably, the interface of mind to language evolved the same way for you as it did for him/her.

It's amazing sometimes.

Anyway, this was never supposed to be organized, but I feel like I'm rambling, so I'm going to stop.

I figured I had paid my debt to society, by paying my overdue fines at the Multnomah County library.

19 Comments:

At 5:50 PM, Blogger Omni said...

What if, in a total reversal of our current situation as you've described it, the entire human race became perfectly telepathic, such that we could absorb every element of what was in the brain of whoever we were trying to communicate with, thus allowing for "perfect communication"... what do you think would happen?

 
At 7:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Probably instantaneous chaos.
The power surge would blow our motherboards.
We have enough trouble incorporating the relatively clean stream of stimuli that our own senses supply, along with what we already have analysed and categorized and placed within our tentative file system of abstractions.
Imagine hooking somebody else's entire matrix of thought into your own.
Blammo!

-- Don Sheffler

 
At 7:39 PM, Blogger Omni said...

That's an excellent point, Don; our brains probably CAN'T handle that much detailed stimuli. How about if I amend the question to include the ability to deal with the explosion of stimuli along with the ability to be perfectly telepathic... then what?

 
At 8:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uh ... I think that there are several Star Trek episodes and at least one Star Trek movie dealing with that premise. I like their treatment enough, so I'll leave it at that.

Closer to what Luke was talking about, I've often wondered about how emotions work too, though not necessarily through the lens of language. Specifically, are our emotions developed by society or internally? What I mean is, do we get our ideas of 'sad,' etc from society, internalize them, and then season them to taste; or do we have our own emotions that we recognize as corresponding to certain labels that society uses? The first option doesn't seem especially likely, and if it's the second option, well, the trouble that Luke points out is unsurprising.

--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable Cone of Ignorance

 
At 8:46 PM, Blogger Luke said...

It would obviously a gradual process as evolution demands.

It's an interesting thought experiment though Omni, though I only think Chaos would erupt if this chaos happened within a geologically short time frame (generations instead of hundreds of generations), Still, given even a few generation lead in, I think people could handle it.

And I don't think it would be that catastrophic, because think of how much sensory input we discard on a daily basis. Something like only the central 30% of your vision is set up to do any kind of scrutinizing, the rest is just for picking up visual cues of possible interest.

As it is, human beings already only use a vanishingly small amount of the data that is fed them daily. For example, I'm consciously ignoring a very intrusive conversation amongst four elderly women next to me about the fantastic technological advancements witnessed in the taffy-pulling industry.

So it depends on how the telepathy would work. If we were able to semi-automatically discard most of it, and only focus on the things that naturally caught our attention, then I don't see it being destructive at all.

As to how the brains would communicate, it would probably still be through the medium of language, as that seems to be the context within which the human mind thinks (if you have any bilingual friends, ask them about the first time they dreamt in their second language, it's disorienting).

So I'm a little skeptical that even if profound telepathy were tacked on to the human intellect as it exists right now, the confusion arising from language would go away.

If, though, telepathy were more gradual, and if it were further and further utilized and depended upon as the generations progressed, then we'd develop an emotional, telepathic language.

I'm not really sure. I have no real background in language or cognition--though both are possibilities for future study--so this is pretty wild speculation.

 
At 9:19 PM, Blogger Luke said...

COMMMENT SPAMMER! God . . . so . . . intrusive.

RE:"Uh ... I think that there are several Star Trek episodes and at least one Star Trek movie dealing with that premise. " LMAO exactly. I was going to specifically talk telepathy, but it's just so hard, as the research is sketchy at best, and anything approaching species-wide telepathy is a total and complete excercise in Sci-Fi speculation, it seemed pointless.

As long as it's within one series of Roddenberry's influence (so more or less, OG Star Trek, TNG, and, to some extent DS9), Star Trek can more or less be taken as future science gospel. I mean, why the hell not? What else is there.

We know Vulcans can mind meld, and look how cool-headed they are. QED.

"Specifically, are our emotions developed by society or internally? What I mean is, do we get our ideas of 'sad,' etc from society, internalize them, and then season them to taste; or do we have our own emotions that we recognize as corresponding to certain labels that society uses? "

That is exactly the tense interplay I was trying to get at in this blog Mike. We certainly have the emotions that create SAD, within us. But also, in the process of symbol learning, we are told what sad (the word) is. Does the definitional term, and the outward physical cues that go with it, perfectly correspond with the inward emotional interactions? I don't think so, not perfectly. Because once again, when someone tells you what sad is, they have to do so without referencing your or their internal state, they respond to what they've witnessed and have concluded, through interpersonal contact, are the outward SYMPTOMS of sadness, not necessarily the sadness itself.

This creates the disconnect that was kind of the impetus for this blog.

Anyway, that's what I THINK. Who knows, but the more I discuss this, the more I like the idea of studying some sort of cognitive science in grad school . . .

 
At 9:21 PM, Blogger Omni said...

Mike, you brought up a VERY interesting idea; it makes me wonder... how DO little kids learn what name to give what emotion, and how often do they learn it "wrong"? If they DO get the wrong idea about emotions, it's not like, for example, if they try calling a cat a dog, because that's easily seen as wrong and corrected; how do parents know if their child is sad but is calling the feeling "angry" or "frightened" in his mind, and thus how can they correct him?

And what part does societal conditioning play in our ability to even SEE our emotions? There are so many men who claim to either not have feelings or not know what they feel... is it a coincidence that little boys are taught to not cry or show fear, etc?

 
At 9:46 PM, Blogger Omni said...

Luke, what I'm trying to describe, obviously not very effectively, lol, is a situation in which 2 people (or more, but that complicates trying to imagine it) who wanted to communicate would be able to, in effect, be totally inside each other's brains, and would thus be able to see any idea put forth EXACTLY the same way the originator of the idea sees it, complete with "knowing" the exact meaning of each word used, and seeing all the images, flashes of memory, etc, that accompany our thoughts and shed light on them but that are currently hidden from those we speak to.

In other words... the confusion and obfuscation caused by language in the many ways you pointed out would vanish. When you shared a thought or idea with someone, they'd know EXACTLY what you meant, and vice versa... and, and this is the kicker, even when you did NOT wish to share with someone, they would STILL know exactly what was on your mind. Can you imagine how radically that would change every relationship in our lives, and society as a whole?

My reason for approaching this topic from such an odd direction is this thought; if we were truly able to communicate accurately, would that actually be better, or is the inexactitude of language necessary for society to continue?

 
At 9:47 PM, Blogger Luke said...

"There are so many men who claim to either not have feelings or not know what they feel... is it a coincidence that little boys are taught to not cry or show fear, etc?"

I don't think it's any coincidence at all, despite the inability to accurately describe emotion, the seed of language is so pervasive in our minds it becomes maybe the most potent force to shaping the mind, in my opinion.

Have any of you studied Memetic theory? It's the idea that ideas proliferate through brains in much the same way as genes replicate themselves in nature. It's fascinating to look at ideas as mutating viruses that infect minds. Still, it's just one theory, and like evolutionary theory, is more descriptive than proscriptive.

 
At 10:12 PM, Blogger Luke said...

"Can you imagine how radically that would change every relationship in our lives, and society as a whole?

My reason for approaching this topic from such an odd direction is this thought; if we were truly able to communicate accurately, would that actually be better, or is the inexactitude of language necessary for society to continue?"

Oh absolutely, it would completely obliterate discourse as it now exists, which is why, as Don said, it would be so chaotic if introduced quickly.

I think what you're hinting at is correct in that context. Without the ability to lie/mask/incompletely display our feelings, society as it is would most certainly break down.

I think the people would be shocked by how little people actually agree with one another--shocked at the variety of opinions on any subject, shocked, overall at the diversity of human experience and feeling.

Of course, in an evolutionary context, this really couldn't happen, the transition would be much slower, and the adaptation and unfurling of the totality of human emotion would be a less bitter pill.

Whether our current evolutionary trajectory even allows for this kind of cognitive link is definitely in doubt. As Dennet is always quick to point out, for every evolutionary step, millions of evolutionary trajectories/possibilities become statistically impossible. That's not to be confused with literally impossible, but of a probability approaching zero.

 
At 10:31 PM, Blogger Omni said...

Luke, you hear the word "meme" being tossed around alot these days, but not much about memetic theory. I found a few interesting pages:

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/MEMLEX.html

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/MEMES.html

on a website that give quite a bit of info; take a look, it's fascinating. Much of it reminds me of what we were taught in college about marketing strategies; I'm guessing that's not by accident, as the creation of memes is one of the goals of marketing.

The concept that ideas, which have no physical existence, can "act" as if they DO have SOME sort of existence, may be workable within my worldview; I need to study it at greater length to see if it fits in, and if so what it means. In any case, you've given me a new avenue to pursue... WOOHOO!!!!!!!! :-)

 
At 10:39 PM, Blogger Luke said...

"The concept that ideas, which have no physical existence, can "act" as if they DO have SOME sort of existence, may be workable within my worldview; I need to study it at greater length to see if it fits in, and if so what it means."

To that end, here's a fairly thorough list of traditional print sources, if you're planning a trip to the library:

http://www.memecentral.com/books.htm

Though it's listed under biological evolution, Dawkins' The Selfish Gene has one of the earliest formulations of memetic theory, coming in the mid 70s I think. Dennet's "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" Is a fantastically thorough look at all aspects of evolution, biological and memetic, and the impact that has on creating an ethics programme within an evolutionary context.

Aside from that, I've heard Virus of the Mind given lots of good press, most notably from my Catholic Metaphysics professor--high praise from a man who worships Walker Percy like a fourth member of the holy trinity.

I digress.

I need to buy all of these books myself, I've been consumed by this theory lately, but mostly as a vehicle for shitty science fiction :)

 
At 10:45 PM, Blogger Omni said...

Since we agree that being able to lie, conceal, partially conceal, or otherwise hide the total truth is necessary for society to continue, that brings us to... is there any benefit to us to not being able to be clear about thoughts, feelings, etc even when we WANT to (or think we do)?

I know it seems odd, but might'nt there be a reason that we evolved to want to communicate accurately, but are often unable to? Think how intensely bonded you feel to someone when they DO seem to really get what you're trying to tell them, epecially about your most important ideas... could that have evolutionary value?

 
At 9:21 AM, Blogger Luke said...

" but might'nt there be a reason that we evolved to want to communicate accurately, but are often unable to?"

I think the most expedient answer would be that, from a particular evolutionary node--the point at which telepathy might have become benefitial--we were already so far off that path, the chances of getting there are statistically impossible.

The other day I mentioned Dennett's book Darwin's Dangerous Idea. He talks at length about evolutionary workspace, and the significant time and energy it takes to affect change. He also talks about the statistical probabilities of becoming that which we already passed. That is, given a possible set of changes, one is made, even after that one change is made, the others become almost unreachable--the statistical probably approaching zero.

Another possibility is that it IS part of our evolutionary path, it just hasn't happened yet. Evolution isn't about what animals "want", it's a numbers game of environmental factors and adaptations that facilitate or hinder the passing of genes. Maybe we're on that road, who knows.

It's also possible, and this is where I think you're hinting Omni, that telepathy happened to at least some members of the species, and the reaction was violent and disruptive, or at least hindered reproductive success.

Insofar as each conforms to the rules of evolution as we understand them, they're all equally valid hypotheses. There are probably dozens more as well.

 
At 2:56 PM, Blogger Omni said...

Actually, Luke, what I believe, based on my experiences, my studies, and my usual sort of reasoning, is that ALL humans are telepathic, that we have been all the way back through our "cave days," and that the existence of telepathy benefitted us so strongly that it allowed our ridiculous species to survive... and that's why the ability still exists.

The question you were responding to wasn't about telepathy, though; it was to get your ideas about how our inability to fully communicate with each other might have evolved that way because it benefits us... what do you think?

 
At 6:07 PM, Blogger Luke said...

it was to get your ideas about how our inability to fully communicate with each other might have evolved that way because it benefits us... what do you think?

I think the most likely answer is that our inability to fully communicate is less of an evolutionary blessing that a fact of our evolutionary embeddedness. This goes back once again to the idea of the evolutionary work space.

As primates evolved and began developing brains that could handle simple linguistic cues, there's really no inherent need to have something approximating telepathy. So as the linguistic centers of the brain matured, there's no necessary reason the ability to adequately express emotions would as well. So when human brains got complex enough to begin worrying about things like fully expressing the rich emotional life they had begun developing, the linguistic structures that had developed primarily as organizational constructs would not necessarily have been able to keep up.

That seems like the most likely scenario to me.

This is put in doubt it what you mentioned reading is true about telepathy amongst pre-human ancestors. What was that all about?

 
At 8:36 PM, Blogger Omni said...

The more I read about science finding every aspect of us, big or small, to have benefits that caused them to survive in us throughout our evolution, the more I look at things myself from that perspective; I ask "could this have been of evolutionary value?", and I usually see that it could have... for example, the inability to fully communicate with people in general makes us bond intensely with friends or romantic partners that we DO feel like we're really getting through to, and this would confer all sorts of benefits in primitive man.

As to telepathy, and psychic abilities in general: I know they exist, as I have seen them in action, and displayed them myself countless times. Where do these abilities come from? I can't think of any other way but via our DNA. How recently did the genes for these abilities appear? There are references to them, especially precognition, all the way to the earliest human writings, so it's reasonable to assume they go back that far. They appear in writings and cultures all over the world, which means that either they developed many times in many places, or just developed once, early enough on that we were still living in a limited area; Occam's Razor points to the latter explanation, which then means that psychic abilities existed all the way back to our most primitive days... when such abilities would have conferred great survival benefit.

 
At 8:46 PM, Blogger Luke said...

Those are interesting points Omni, but really, for telepathy to affect the bulk of human cultures, you really don't have to go THAT far back, geologically speaking. The first humans walked out of Africa very recently in the greater scope of things.

You're right though, if telepathy exists as widely as it seems, it would make sense that those genotypic traits would have appeared in at least some of our early ancestors.

 
At 9:20 PM, Blogger Omni said...

The next question would be; was psychic ability a mutation that took hold because it conferred such enormous advantages, or did it evolve from more primitive perceptions? I can't see any reason to prefer one of those explanations over the other... but I'd sure like to know.

 

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